Is this a good or bad price??

[WDLV]

My view on pairs is:
Pair: Two fish you threw in the tank together that haven't killed each other.
Bonded pair: Two fish that share a host and are about the size of an adult male/female.
Mated Pair: Two fish that have "mated." I generally require proof of this before I shell out astronomical prices for a "pair."

I personally get irritated when a vendor throws two fish together and calls it a "mated" pair. The word "mated" implies reproduction.
It may or may not be the view of the majority in the hobby but that's the way I see it. :)

[WDLV]

Originally Posted by rlf_racing

Yes they share the anemone. When the lfs first got these clowns they were very timid and would not come out of hiding. They did this for a couple weeks. I came back on the fourth week and they were hosting the anemone you see in the pic above. The male is still a little timid but stays out in the open more. I am just wondering what is the likelyhood of actually talking the price down on these fish. Has anybody had any luck doing this with your lfs. This lfs is a three part store, left side is reptiles, middle is highend birds, and the right is saltwater fish and tanks. So any suggestions on how to talk them down would be great.

I have been able to talk my LFS down. There are some unwritted rules though. You should be a regular paying customer, and you should be reasonable with your pricing expectations. 10%-20% max.
Another thing... regardless of what anyone else thinks, you should pay what the fish are worth to you. I wouldn't have two pairs of latz or 3 leucs if I didn't believe that. Any retailer that plans to stay in business will charge what the market will bear. He knows there are plenty of people with more dollars than sense. But if he thinks he'll be better off getting rid of that pair than waiting for a higher paying customer, he will drop the price a little for you. Always keep in mind, the longer he sits on those fish, the more he has to feed them and the more he risks loosing them to disease.

[mwp]

Originally Posted by WDLV

My view on pairs is:
Pair: Two fish you threw in the tank together that haven't killed each other.
Bonded pair: Two fish that share a host and are about the size of an adult male/female.
Mated Pair: Two fish that have "mated." I generally require proof of this before I shell out astronomical prices for a "pair."

I personally get irritated when a vendor throws two fish together and calls it a "mated" pair. The word "mated" implies reproduction.
It may or may not be the view of the majority in the hobby but that's the way I see it. :)

Actually, while I like the jargon definitions proposed, there's a conflict with our Freshwater Bretheren. In Freshwater, in many cases what we're calling a "bonded pair" is sold as a "mated pair", often times because if they were not a pair they wouldn't even tolerate each other. In other words, in FW, "mated pair" is routinely used for a compatible pair that is bonded, without having spawned. When the pair has spawned successfully and produced VIABLE offspring, that pair is said to be a "PROVEN PAIR".

FWIW,

Matt

[WDLV]

That explains a lot. I haven't kept freshies really since I was a little kid... and we didn't have the internet then. :)

[donnyt]

If they are an exceptionally good looking pair, they are worth every penny.

[cschweitzer]

I'd go with three classifications, personally
Pair: Two compatible clowns
Breeding/Mated pair: Two clownfish that have reproduced
Broodstock Pair: Pairs that have reproduced viable offspring that have been reared

The bottom two can really be used interchangeably, though.

[mwp]

Originally Posted by cschweitzer

Pair: Two compatible clowns

Then in theory, take any two juvenile clownfish and put 'em together, right? I think thats the general gripe when people are buying a "Pair" sight unseen online...it has a connotation that isn't necessarily truly representative. I have some some places specify "young" vs. "adult" pair.

the "compatability" factor is typically where we get into a "Bonded / Mated Pair"...I think those two are pretty interchangeable. "Mated" implies something akin to "married', i.e. they are compatible and stick together.

Breeding/Mated pair: Two clownfish that have reproduced

Ah, but again, in FW, a mated pair doesn't connotate that the fish ever bred. I think a "Breeding" Pair would be the same as an actively "Mating" Pair, but I think the simple fact is that both of those adjectives are not as definite as referring to something as a "Proven" Pair, which as I mentioned earlier, is the standard for fish that have spawned and produced a viable nest. A pair that is bonded and mates, well, that's still just a mated pair.

Broodstock Pair: Pairs that have reproduced viable offspring that have been reared

I personally have two issues with this. Broodstock can mean ANYTHING. I can purchase a dozen 1" Allardi and refer to it as potential/future "Broodstock". In my book, Broodstock is only truly applicable in a general sense referring to matured fish separated out for the express purposes of breeding, not for sale. I know tons of clownfish breeders who have mature pairs that have not spawned...they would still without hesitate refer to those pairs as "Broodstock" and likely keep them in a "Broodstock" system.

Furthermore, I have an issue with the lats part as well - "Viable Offspring that have been reared". It's the "have been reared" part. In many respects, unless the pair is infertile (which couldn't produce VIABLE offspring), the ability of an aquarist to rear the young is largely the responsibility of the aquarist, not the broodstock. In other words, 2 ocellaris pairs side-by-side, one has had a batch reared and the other has just been left to hatch without rearing OR failed to be reared....should the fact that the 2nd pair wasn't reared make them less desireable?

Thus I have to stick with the "Proven Pair" concept as described above as being the "last", most highly desireable level of "broodstock" clownfish. Everyone wants "proven pairs" when they can get them simply because we *hope* they'll be the quickest route to offspring.

Just my off-topic $0.02.

FWIW,

Matt

[schlecht13]

Prices for clowns is always a very interesting topic to me...honestly my opinion - as was mentioned above - is simply, what are they worth to you? I'll admit to having paid some outlandish prices for proven spawners in the past as well as paid next to nothing for two random fish and waited 3 years before they spawned (some never have ) so if they are bonded, haven't been over-treated with some medcines = primarily copper (although nothing is a hard and fast rule) its likely they will eventually spawn...I typically use time to figure in prices I'll pay - unless of course we are talking latz, leucs, chrysogasters and the rare ones...I'll pay AND wait :) (in most cases I suppose)...I admit -I am a sucker for clowns!

[rlf_racing]

Well an update on the pair of clowns. I haven't been able to talk to the manager about reducing the price. Now they are calling them a potential pair. And since the economy has gone to crap it looks like I will have to pass on these clowns.