Spinning A. Percula??

[schlecht13]

I have had a pair of True percs for about 13 months now and about 7 days ago, the male began to spin around and around in circles, first 'level' and then slowly it was like he was standing on his head (mid-water) and spinning. It was like he didn't know which way was up or down and had permanant vertigo. He would even eat as 'usual' without interrupting the spinning for the first two days. Because I have never seen an otherwise normal clown do this after such a long time in good health, I was at a loss and as usual when I am at a loss, I leave everything as is, do a water change, test the water etc. etc. After seven days of constant and I mean 24/7 spinning, he expired this morning--still trying to spin.

His mate, the female is fine as are the other 5 pairs hooked into this system and he exhibited no other signs at all of illness. Water parameters are fine (although since this is a fish only setup, nitrates usually hover around 10ppm), nothing has changed, lighting is the same, feeding routine is the same etc.

I am hoping someone has seen this or heard of this anomaly...I seem to be running into a streak of bad luck--Ideas?

[schlecht13]

This is what was mentioned (b/w somebody and Bob Fenner) on wetweb btw, so obviously something that HAS been seen before...

Crazy Clown owner: "BUT the smaller clownfish of the two is going absolutely crazy; spinning in circles rapidly with a tumbling like move....nonstop tumbling and twisting.... what does this mean?

Bob: <That something is wrong... if other fish/es not malaffected it's likely not the environment but this specimen per se... Perhaps a developmental disorder. How to put this... fishes aren't as "done" in terms of neurological progress as mammals when they appear "older"... your one fish may have a genetic anomaly that is now just expressing itself>

I have a protein skimmer, filter, heater, and powerhead.... the other things I have in my tank are 2 snails, 1 hermit crab, 1 shrimp, 1 starfish... What is happening to the clownfish?

<Can't tell, don't know... but as far as I'm aware, not much you can do other than maintain good maintenance practices and hope. Bob Fenner>

Not so helpful :)

[schlecht13]

FYI to anyone interested--referenced from: Differential Diagnosis of Ulcerative Lesions in Fish ::infectious agents

Viral. Viruses such as rhabdovirus have been implicated in several ulcerative syndromes of fish (12). However, no consistent associations have been made between viral infections and UM-like lesions in Atlantic menhaden or other western Atlantic fish species. Stephens et al. (32) reported infectious pancreatic necrosis-like virus as a cause of spring menhaden epizootics in the Chesapeake Bay. A virus isolated from menhaden with neurologic signs ("spinning disease") was injected into normal menhaden, which subsequently developed signs of spinning disease along with hemorrhages at the base of fins, in the eyes, and along the body (32). Such lesions could certainly lead to secondary infections and subsequent overt skin ulcers. This virus deserves consideration on the list of possible differentials, especially since distressed menhaden reportedly affected by toxic Pfiesteria have been observed with neurotoxic signs that may be similar to spinning disease (1). Interestingly, I have found no other reports of infectious pancreatic necrosis-like virus associated with disease in menhaden.

And I never thought I would see a virus (assuming thats what it was) even though its mentioned in just about every text on marine fish....
This would explain why it happened all the sudden--the little guys immune system must have been compromised in some way

[Fishboy42]

I have seen the spinning behavior you describe in clowns affected by the virus that causes lymphocystis. With good water quality, food, etc, it seems to resolve itself, but it is infrequently fatal. I'm sorry to hear you lost the little guy.

[schlecht13]

Thanks for the info on Lymphocytis--I have seen that (albeit rarely) but never the spinning. Luckily "everyone" else seems fine. I would imagine many fish (and likely mine) carry the virus. Do you know of a way to test for it or what virus it is?

[Fishboy42]

I believe it is caused by a virus in the family Iridoviridae, which would indicate a double-stranded DNA virus.One way to test for presence in fish would be to examine tissue samples under a microscope for the abnormal cells. You could do a DNA extraction and workup as well (I believe many iridoviruses have been sequenced), but that's a little extreme. I would have liked to do this though, as I have worked with and enjoy viral characterization, but it surely would have been a misappropriation of the NSF funding on the "real" projects!

I don't think there are any known treatments for it. Hoff recommends removing the cysts manually, but I haven't found this to speed recovery (or slow it really, but since the process is certainly stressful for the fish, I prefer not to do it). Hoff also states that the virus is noncontagious, but I and others have found this not to be true. In experiments involving the virus, the skin of fish is abraded and then exposed to water containing the virus (the fish then later develops signs of infection). I suspect this is why fish often show symptoms after being caught in a net (lesson: nets are for dead fish only!) :)

Anyway, I guess this is all a little late, but it also shows that we know very little about viruses infecting our fish...